Comments on: CSS3 Advanced Layout

By: Ben

Ben — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:25:41 +0000

To be honest, one of the strongest parts of this Advanced Layout proposition is that because the definition of the layout is defined using a single feature of CSS — rather than the current situation of combining margins/floats/positioning together — it will degrade far far more gracefully into a single column layout. Of course we’ll still be doing it the current way for a while yet, but when the day comes switching to using CSS3-AL will not break the content in unsupporting browsers.

That’s a huge plus over current CSS layout in legacy browsers like IE5 (PC and Mac), Netscape 4 and so on, which are now sacrificed by illegibility as their partial support for the cocktail of properties used in layout produces incomplete and unpredictable results. CSS3-AL won’t suffer from that. The layout will disappear in old browsers, but the the colour, graphics and typography will remain. It’s a far better implementation for how the web is supposed to work.

By: Luziphir

Luziphir — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:04:15 +0000

I blame CSS for Internet Explorer’s, Opera’s, Firefox’s, Konqueror’s, and Safari’s horrible implementation of it. CSS for positioning anything but the most basic layouts (and even for some of those, it’s awful) is terrible, illogical, and a waste of time and effort. CSS is the reason that more and more web sites are fixed width these days, except for very simple layouts, fluid width simply isn’t possible, or is far too convoluted for anyone to consider working with (and this is in compliant browsers). Even with compliant browsers, one usually has to use so many strange “hacks” and nested divs that the code is neither “correct” nor does it separate layout from content (which is incredibly stupid and irrelevant anyway since any site with a decent amount of content will be using a database or server side includes at the least unless they are completely incompetent).

Finally, all of the above is irrelevant. You can bitch and moan about how it’s Internet Explorer’s fault (which isn’t even true) as much as you want.

In the end, this is all supposed to be about doing a professional job, is it not? Exactly how professional is it to ignore 90% of your audience?

By: Vogateer

Vogateer — Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:07:43 +0000

It drives me crazy when someone blames CSS for Internet Explorer’s horrible implementation of it.

I just finished changing a forum’s table layout to CSS, and I personally can’t wait for the day that tables as presentational layout is a horrible, distant memory.

If this advanced layout module takes hold, I’ll start using it immediately, since on my forum people can pick how they want things displayed. If you use a broken browser like Internet Explorer, then you simply can’t take advantage of the goodies.

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:34:06 +0000

I’m not sure I’d be quite as harsh as that. CSS3 Advanced Layout Module most certainly is the future and it most certainly is much more robust than what we have now. But CSS is now too; that’s the just the truth of the matter.

CSS positioning in 2006 is harder than it could be but many thousands of authors have got it sussed; there’s no going back. It’s unfortunate that CSS isn’t quite pick-up-and-play, but this is also a tool of a skilled profession and therefore it doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that it requires some commitment to gain proficiency.

I’m not convinced that we’re ‘in a mess’ at all.

By: Daaaave

Daaaave — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:40:42 +0000

I’ve been told many times that CSS is the future. Well I agree, it’s the future, not now. Positioning in CSS sucks and I have yet to find a fluid CSS layout that doesn’t break one way or another.

If CSS positioning had been thought out properly much earlier then we probably wouldn’t be in the mess we are in today.

By: Tabrizi

Tabrizi — Wed, 31 May 2006 12:25:39 +0000

This gives me some faith in the whole CSS layout thing but how long will it take to be implepented… 10 years?

Im quite angry really that browers and CSS Layout are so far apart. Why? Why? Why?

You spend ages making a complex Nested DIV layout only to find out that it looks terrible in IE and fine in Firefox. You try to sort it out only to find hacks to solve the probem. I dont want to use hacks for professional client websites Isnt the term hacking something dodgy? hello?

This whole revolution in design for web seems stuppid when things dont work and require hacking to solve. I might just stick to validating table designs and flash based sites. CSS seems a little to big for its boots and needs to grow up!

By: Notes pour (beaucoup) plus tard » Mise en page

Notes pour (beaucoup) plus tard » Mise en page — Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:14:37 +0000

[...] Layout en CSS3. [...]